I was mad as hell and I'm

not going to take this anymore.

So you lie to yourself to be happy. There's nothing wrong with that. We all do it.

We all go a little mad sometimes.

Come on. One of you nuts has got any guts. Let's put a smile on that face.

You're only as healthy as you feel. Listen to me. Listen to you? By what rights? Because I have a right to be. And I have a voice.

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to Pop Culture Case Study. Yeah, let's do it.

I'm pumped.

Let's let the healing begin. Welcome to Pop Culture Case Study where we analyze pop culture from a psychological angle. I am your host, Dave, and I'm here with my co host, Will. Will. We have finally reached it. The most important movie not only of this year, but maybe ever. Christopher Nolan's the odyssey already has $100 million in pre sales. They are ready to go for the Odyssey. So we're going to take a look at the Cohen's Odyssey, which is. Oh brother, Where Art Thou? Very different movie, but in my mind we'll get into it. But the greatest version of the Odyssey ever put to film. Mr. Nolan has his work cut out for him if he wants to pass. Oh brother, war art thou. So we're talking that movie and individuation. Becoming an individual, becoming the person that you actually are instead of your own limitations. So where are you on the Odyssey? Not interested. Right. That director sucks. Don't care.

Overrated hack. No, I, I'm. I couldn't be more excited for this. Not only because it's Christopher Nolan's, I don't know, biggest film to date. Biggest. Yeah, you know, challenge. I mean, there's, excuse me, there's of course the fact that he shot this entirely on IMAX film cameras in 70 millimeter. But you know, massive cast and also a true, it seems, adaptation of the Odyssey. I mean, I remember when there was early reporting not that long after the massive success of Oppenheimer kind of reached its peak with the best picture win in all of the Oscars and everything else that came with it. But I remember there was like reporting of, yeah, he's, he's remaking Days of Thunder with helicopters. It was like, what. And then that they had Matt Damon and Tom Holland. Right. But the rest was totally right, wrong. And for it to be, for it to turn out to be the Odyssey is, is kind of a weird full circle thing for me. So I. The Odyssey is, is a, you know, a story that I have been familiar with for Obviously a very long time, as most people have, but this is like a, a core memory of mine from high school. My cousin and I were in the same English class and we had summer reading. One of our summer reading books as freshman in high school was the Odyssey. And our English teacher at that time was billed to be the spawn of Satan by anybody who was entering that high school and was so intense about the Odyssey that I think we spent the entire first half of the year dissecting it. It and it became a joke in our family. Like, oh, Will and Jess, you know, you're rereading it again. Like what's this week's test about the chapters two through three. Like, it was intense and to the point where our, our parents were getting us joke gifts like, of different translations of the Odyssey, a comic book version of the Odyssey. Like there's a whole thing. So the Odyssey has been in my life for a very, very long time. Of course, it's like the most well known story ever. So it's not that unique of a story to talk about, but like it's, it's just been in my brain since I was 12, 13 years old. And so now to see one of, if not my favorite director making it truly with as star studded a cast as you can assemble and on the biggest stage, it's, it's, it's incredible. I can't wait for this. I, I am one of the people who was lucky enough to get tickets when they were selling a year in advance. As much as I hate that film, big film events have now started to become concert tickets, essentially. I think that sucks. I think it's horrible. But I'm also part of the problem because I really want to see this as early as possible on the biggest stage as possible. I'm very eager to do that. I wish it would not be the trend as it already seems to be with Dune also being the, the second one in that trend and then again it happening with the Odyssey once normal tickets were on sale. I think that is all terrible, but I am really looking forward to seeing this movie. I have a couple of tickets already lined up, so it better, it better be good. Better be good. And I have, I have confidence that it likely will be. And everything I've seen so far in terms of the prologue and the trailers, like, I, I can't get enough of it. I'm really.

Yeah, it's, I'm obviously very excited for this and you know that access is one of my kind of pet things that I'm kind of always ranting about. And, you know, all of this would be solved if the film industry would actually put money into building theaters that could actually house this. You wouldn't have people, you know, selling these tickets for thousands of dollars on the Internet. And if 70 millimeter and IMAX was available in more places, you know, if I were to want to see that, I would have to, I would have to leave the state of Kentucky to see that. And you know, I'm, I love movies. I love Nolan. I'm not spending a work day in the car to see a movie. I'm just not going to do that. I have, I better things to do than that. I have a family, I have, I have a wife, I have a job. I have all that, you know, I, I got things to do, you know, so. And you know, if I could, I would love to see this in the best possible light. But I will, I will see it however I can.

And I, as Christopher Nolan has said, that's okay.

That's okay. Yeah, absolutely. And phone. When I, When I think about this movie, I, I think what I think about a lot of movies is I want to see less. I, I am tired of a world in which there are five different trailers and a behind the scenes thing and a prologue attached to another movie. I, when I see the prologue of this movie, I want it to be when I'm sitting down to watch the movie. Like, I just, I, you know, I remember, I think the first time I remember this happening was the Dark Knight. Like that. This was the first time that happened. And I, you know, I enjoyed seeing that prologue early, but I kind of wish I'd seen it when I saw the movie. Like, I just, I, you know, you cannot go in blind to a movie like this. It's not possible. If you're at all in the world, like, if you watch television, you're going to see something about the Odyssey. And you know, there's already been a lot of complaints about like, the armor and how it looks and blah, blah, blah, and like, I don't care. I'm in for this. It is one of the greatest stories ever told, being put on screen by one of the greatest big screen storytellers that we've ever had. So how could you not be excited about this? I mean, I don't care about the armor, I don't care about the accents. I am here for this story and I'm glad to see it. Looks like we're gonna get a version of this story that doesn't ignore the spiritual, the Godlike. We're gonna actually get sirens. We're gonna get this stuff. Whereas, like, you know, you have movies like Troy, where it's like, let's tell the human version of the story and cut out all of the ethereal. And that has value, too. But I'm glad we get to see this. I am very excited to see this movie. I can't wait to find the biggest, loudest screen in my city where I can see this. I am totally down.

Yeah, it's going to be amazing. 2 hours and 52 minutes. Yep.

Let's go, baby. Yeah, go. I mean, it's a big story. It deserves that amount of time. I'm excited to see that. But this week, we're talking about individuation, so we're talking about becoming the person that you are. This is coming of age at any age. So I'm gonna go first.

Yeah.

My recommendation is Bridget Jones's Diary. I think this is. This is another movie, of course, an older movie at this point that is. You know, it's had so many sequels and all that, and it can. You can sometimes forget just how great this movie is. Like, this is maybe the perfect rom com, like, especially for the time it was made. It really fit into the struggles of dating and living in that period of time. It's. Yes, it is very focused on the kind of the Britishness of it all. I mean, anytime you have the actress that you have in that movie, you're gonna get some of that. You got Hugh Grant, you got Colin Firth, you got her doing a, you know, pretty solid accent. She's doing good work there. I. I think this movie really holds up. It's a. It's a movie that I kind of. I rewatched relatively recently when the. The newest one came out a year or two ago. And it's a movie that I was like, man, I forgot how good this is. Like, this really, really works. And by the end of the movie, she has, in many ways, found herself. She has figured out not only who she wants romantically, but who she wants to be. Coming of age is not something that just happens to teenagers. It's something that happens more than once throughout our lives. The version of myself that I became at 19 is thankfully not the version of myself that I've become at 47 or 48. These things change our experiences and our life changes us. So Bridget Jones's Diary, a really funny, really romantic, and quite frankly, really moving romantic comedy. So that is my recommendation.

Delightful, delightful recommendation. I'm going with Aaron Brockovich Steven Soderbergh's Aaron Brockovich, which is obviously just terrific and, you know, one of Julia Roberts best performances. A long list, of course, but about a woman who kind of pulls herself out of a life she wasn't thoroughly enjoying living and into one of the mean, not even means, but meaning and. And discovers who she has probably always been meant to be. The person who helps others, the person who stands. Stands up to what is wrong because wrong has been done to her time and time again and kind of rallies the troops around her. I think that there could be a very cynical read of this movie, that it is very schlocky in terms of like rags to riches type thing. Single mom has to dress with her, you know, cleavage out in order to get people to pay attention to her. But it's also just about a woman who is trying to inspire change and doesn't really care how she has to go about doing that. I think this movie just rocks. Yeah, I think.

Yeah.

Soderbergh, back in the day, there probably wasn't another filmmaker like him. He's still doing incredible things. Obviously. We've. I think we've talked a bit about how we pray that he stops using AI. Little obsession with AI is something of a fad and. And he sees that the John Lennon thing doesn't work out because all of the reports out of can were that it's a disaster and, and an insult to everything that he's done before. The ultimate craftsman. But Aaron Brockovich is arguably his first

classic, you know, and that's a movie that's like kind of weirdly been forgotten. Like, that's not a movie that actually gets brought up a lot. And you want to talk about a great movie that deserves all the, all the awards. Love it got. And also is just like a really fun watch. So fun. It's so. It's. At that point, it was such a different performance for Julia Roberts, literally America's sweetheart, like, playing a little bit of a caustic, cynical role playing, like. And she absolutely knocks it out of the park in that movie. Like, she's so good. I don't know, like, how the casting worked in that movie, but, like, somebody saw something that no one else did and boy, did it really work. Like gangbusters. Yeah, that's a great movie. All right. So the other movies I chose Stand By Me, which I recently rewatched at least a little bit of because, like, Tess and I were flipping through the channels and that came on and I was like, yeah, let's watch that. This is great. And boy, does that hold up. Almost Famous, one of the best coming of age stories ever made. And then from there I wanted to look at coming of age stories that were not about youth because that's what kind of we're looking at here. So what I came up with was another movie I recently rewatched with Tessa, Muriel's Wedding, which is tremendous. Highly recommend. That movie. Young adult reality bites. High Fidelity. My Name is Doris. The animated film Soul, which is, I guess, kind of about finding yourself after death in many ways. Moonlight is about someone who is trying to find himself late in life, mainly because of, you know, the way the world is, obviously. And the last one, last week we mentioned a Renata Rentsev movie. How about the Worst Person in the World? How about that?

The only reason I didn't recommend it is because I think I've done it before.

Yeah, I think you have. And. But it's worth recommending more than once because it's. I mean, Renaida Rentsev has given us some great performances recently. I don't know that anything is better than her performance. I mean, that's one of the great screen performances in quite a long time. She is really, really tremendous there. So an easy recommendation.

It's funny, I as she appeared in Backrooms, which is not the movie we talked about last week, but is obviously a recent release when that conversation was coming up about how like, she's sort of starting to appear in even more mainstream, I guess you could call it. And it made me think about how the original cast of Weapons was her in the Julia Garner role and Pedro Pascal in the Josh Brolin role, which I don't think that one works, but like totally different movie.

Yeah, absolutely, a different movie.

And I would have loved to see what she would have done with the Julia Garner part. As good as Garner is in that movie. But yeah, I agree, Worst Person in the World was also on my list. Other titles. The Darjeeling Limited, which I just rewatched recently. And I just think it's so disastrously underrated.

It's a movie I don't like very much. So I am your target.

Hey, it's okay. Wes Anderson is divisive on what's good and what's not to people. Some people are like, yeah, Asteroid Cities is best and other people are like, worst movie I've ever seen.

These poor white people in India. Whatever. Next.

Francis Ha. Lost in Translation.

Sure.

A couple others. Three Colors Blue. Because Lasky film.

God, I love those movies.

All three of them are amazing. But Blue is especially about, like, a woman who, after loss, is searching for meaning and. And who she really is. Eternity in a day.

I haven't seen that one.

Martin Scorsese's Alice doesn't live here anymore.

Absolutely.

You know, one of his first bangers.

Another person who is dabbling in AI who should stop. Come on, Marty, do better.

Yeah, I don't know. Jeez, that's so much money. I was actually talking to a friend recently. He was like, well, you know, filmmakers don't make money. I was like that.

You're right. Except he does.

Martin Scorsese makes money.

He does?

Yes.

Really?

Are you sure? Yeah, I was like, I promise. And I looked up his net worth, and it's like 200 million and.

Sounds about right. Yeah, he's fine. Really.

I'm like, are you kidding me, dude?

I mean, I guarantee you a bunch of those Apple TV plus budgets are going to come on. I mean, and Netflix.

Are you kidding?

And he should be making money. That's fine. He should.

Not this way, smarty. But not like this. Another member of the old guard of cinema, this one not using AI. Steven Spielberg's Catch Me if you can.

Yeah, yeah.

The Devil Wears Prada. I threw on this list the original. Totally. Hayao Miyazaki's Howl's Moving Castle. Nancy Meyer's the Intern.

I love that movie so much.

So good. So good. I think I've recommended it. So I steered away. Greta Gerwig's Barbie. Why not?

Sure, yeah.

And then the final two, Another movie I've talked about before, but love dearly. Edward Yang's Brighter Summer Day and the last one, fittingly, Coen Brothers film, A Serious Man.

Oh, yeah, yeah. Very much so, yeah. Excellent choices. A lot of great recommendations there. All right, we're going to take a quick break. I will talk about individuation, and then we'll bring Will back to talk about. Oh, brother, where art thou? All right. Hi, everyone. So today for our psychology, what we are talking about is we're going back to Jung again, and we're talking about something called individuation. Now, individuation, this term gets used everywhere. Okay? So it's the manner in which a living thing is identified as distinct from other things. It gets much more complex when we get into philosophy and psychology. Briefly, in Jungian psychology or analytical psychology, individuation is the process by which the individual self develops out of an undifferentiated unconscious. This is a developmental psychic process during which innate elements of personality, components of an immature psyche and the experiences of your life become, if the process is successful, integrated over time into a well functioning whole. Now, there are other psychoanalytic theorists that describe it as the stage where an individual transcends group attachment and narcissistic self absorption. So you could talk about really any of the characters, any of the main three, but really this is about Ulysses, Ulysses Everett McGill, played by George Clooney, who is kind of figuring out who he is. Even though he had a relatively full life before he went to jail and he had kids and a wife and all these things, he had no idea who he really was or what was important to him. Kind of a narcissistic human being. So, yeah. So in human development, individuation is the process of forming a stable personality. Through this we gain a more distinct sense of ourself, separate from our parents or any other social group. Carl Jung heavily focused on this in his work on personality development. In his work, he suggested it was a process of self realization. So throughout life we are prone to losing touch with aspects of our true selves. And through this process of individuation, we can integrate these aspects of ourselves with all of the new learning and experiences that we gain throughout life. So of course this happens throughout life, but it's really important during adolescence and young adulthood. So you might notice a bunch of things either in yourself or if you're, if you're a parent, you might notice this in your, in your child. During adolescence, they will seek privacy. Especially during adolescence, tweens and teens seek more privacy. Parents or caregivers need to become accustomed to their kids wanting to spend more time alone in their rooms. They might not any longer be as open about what happens during their school day or in their friendships. They also start to have romantic relationships and crushes, and they tend to keep these to themselves. There is also a renewed focus on the self. They might focus more on themselves than on other people. Adolescent egocentrism tends to be very common, and this is because of the individuation process. Teenagers tend to be focused on their own concerns and might struggle to even try to see things from the perspective of other people. You might also notice them going against norms. People might rebel against familial or cultural norms. Young people undergoing this process will rebel against their parents. So for instance, if your parents are conservative Christians, they might develop an interest in something like Buddhism and announce or say like, hey, actually I'm an atheist, I don't believe in any of this stuff. So they tend to reject conservative to embrace these more liberal Ideas. They also may change their appearance or style. Kids might dress, style their hair, listen to music their parents object to. I'm sure my mother who is listening will probably understand this very well. Parents should not take these decisions personally. This is a common feature of individuation. In adulthood, people might go through periods of changing how they present themselves to the to the world. Just like in the teen years. They might try out new styles or make larger changes like moving to a new place or switching jobs. So individuation also has impacts. It's really challenging, leads to turmoil and conflict. People don't react well, either internally or the people outside of them to individuation because it's not what you're used to. But also if you don't do it, it can have bad effects as well. Suppressing or denying your true self leads to distress and issues with self identity. Poor individuation leads to a whole host of problems, including lack of boundaries, lack of self awareness, depression, anxiety, low sense of satisfaction with your life, low self worth, poor decision making, poor self esteem, self doubt, and problems with motivation and goal setting. Kids who don't develop a healthy sense of self might become depressed as adults and have existential crises. They might wonder why they chose the career they did or the spouse that they married and question if they were really supposed to do this or if there was a different lifestyle they were supposed to lead. Did they make these choices consciously? Or did they just listen to other people, like their parents, telling them what to do and just did it? Individuation is important not only in the development of a healthy identity, but the development of other healthy relationships. If you're not sure who you are or what you want, you might seek relationships that lack good boundaries and good support. You might feel unable to pursue your own interests and goals and go on with others what others want you to do, maybe because you don't even know what it is you want. So if you struggled with individuation or helping your kids with it, therapy is a really helpful way to address these problems. Because therapy, at its heart, involves analyzing and discovering things about yourself and your relationships with other people. So you might be able to better understand how family dynamics, other influences, personality characteristics, how all these things have played a role in the choices that you've made. So in therapy, you'll learn how to express yourself, how to identify negative and untrue thoughts, how to communicate your boundaries, your wants, your needs, how to develop skills that will help you express this new identity and treat the underlying problems like Stress, anxiety and depression that have come from either from the lack of individuation or something else entirely. But it's really hard to know yourself and set boundaries and do all these great things if you're feeling really depressed, really stressed, or really anxious. It's also important to realize this stuff is normal. Individuation is a normal developmental process. We all should go through it. Teens and young adults need to explore, they need to try new ideas, new beliefs, new styles, new attitudes. And they have to determine what's right for them moving forward. And yes, this is most common during adolescence, but we go through it at other points too. It may be particularly likely during big transitions in your life. Getting married, starting a family, new job, new place to live, all of these situations, you're going to feel these things. And when these things do change, you often need time to adjust and figure out how these changes fit in with your current self concept, who you are right now. Now this is not to say if you are the parent, especially of a teen, that you can just write everything off to individuation. No matter what they're doing, it's fine. Sometimes they're going to be engaging in dangerous and destructive behavior. So at that point you have to step in. So yes, you have to maintain boundari. You need to respect the differences between your children and yourself, but you can't give them all the freedom. You have to let them know, hey, I respect that you're becoming an adult and you want to make some changes and you want to be yourself and that's wonderful. But if you're reckless right now, if you make dangerous choices, there are real world consequences. They're going to affect you for the rest of your life. So you got to be careful about the way you individuate. This is especially true if you see your kid showing signs of experimenting with drugs or alcohol. So yeah, still got to set those boundaries. Even as they undergo this process, kids can find a sense of self without resorting to alcohol, drugs, promiscuity, all these other behaviors that put them at risk. All right, so now we're going to look at this from Analytical psychology. There's an article on the International association for Analytical Psychology from Murray Stein and it's titled the Concept of Individuation and Analytical A Brief Snapshot. So the basic definition of the term is essentially self realization. This means the gradual incarnation of your potential housed within yourself at birth and realized over the course of a lifetime. This has been called the acorn theory of psychological development. A person becomes in Life. What they have brought with them as potential. At birth, we're born with the self. And it takes a lifetime to bring it to more or less full realization. This process unfolds in stages of psychosocial development. So full individuation is the goal. And yet it is never fully achieved. It's approachable, but only in a relative sense. This is because the unconscious is too comprehensive to integrate fully. We get only a glimpse of the self in symbols. But you cannot fully integrate it. So it's an archetypal process. This means it's universally human. And can be thought of as instinct. That is inherited. It's a native human tendency to develop on the psychological level. Which matches, to a degree, physical development. So it falls into essentially two phases. The first half of life and the second. The first half is divided into two more stages. Which Eric Newman, famous analytical psychologist. Named the mother stage and the father stage. The first half of life is basically ego development. The second half is integration of the whole psyche. To the degree possible in your life. So the mother stage starts in the womb. And continues until the age of about 10 years old. It's an atmosphere of containment, nourishment, attachment. The infant has to be brought. Not only physically. But psychologically into the world. And emotional attachment is how this is achieved. This produces the essential experience of belonging. And instills an idea of trust and security in the young person. Demands for achievement and judgments of performance. Are really mild. Ideally at this stage. But the beginning of ego and Persona development emerge. Since conformity to expectations of others is required. So innate features of will and personality will appear early on. Now, the father stage begins with initiation into the world. For demands of performance. This calls for identification with a group of peers. And with a culture as well. And also a stable location in the social order. The big feature of the father world is hierarchy. The individual is required to find a location in their social system. Ambition to achieve a place in the social world begins. And really is what this phase is all about. This is the phase of adaptation to culture. And a really big emphasis is placed on Persona development. An adequate social identity is really important for functioning in this father world. High performance is rewarded. And a lack of fulfillment of cultural expectations is punished. So at the conclusion of this first half, this period. The individual has a stable set of identifications. And has generally established adult relationships. And a secure place in the cultural world. So by the conclusion of this phase. There's a recognizable, stable adult personality. Your ego consciousness has grown along with your physical maturity. And you speak to young Adulthood achieved by the age of about 35. Now, the second half of life begins typically with this new kind of birth. It's initiated by a crisis at midlife. There's a major transition in this process. And the second half of life is characterized by the self replacing father and mother as the central figure of authority. It's up to you now. Newman calls this stage, this the stage of the individual. Now, this is becoming as fully as possible the what that was given as potential at the beginning of life. Psychological development in this stage is not linear, but circular, moving around a center. The center is the self in ever widening patterns of integration. The integration of the shadow self, which we have talked about before, belongs also to the second half of life. So this is the process of becoming conscious of the parts of yourself that were not admitted into the Persona in the first half of life because they're too dark. So the ego confronts the inner opposites and will continue to work in even wider and deeper circles throughout this period as your consciousness expands to include more aspects of yourself. So late stage individuation is characterized by an increased sense of the importance of discovering the meaning of life and developing the spiritual aspects of yourself. There's a sense of transcendence from the everyday world of achievement and social position, as well as this broader view of the meaning of life. And it results in a psychological state of what people have traditionally called wisdom. Toward the end of your life, this becomes much more urgent. The religious instinct comes to dominate instincts of nourishment, sexuality and activity. The emphasis is much more on reflection and a deeper type of creativity that has been in operation in earlier phases. So they talk about this in terms of great works, the great works of world literature, like Dante's Comedia. This was the product of this phase of individuation. Even Young's late autobiography, Memories, Dreams and Reflections, is another example of this. So this is how individuation happens over the life course in analytical psychology. But that's not the only version of this, right? Every psychological theory, every culture has its own idea of individuation. Individuation, of course, is much different in individualistic cultures versus collectivistic cultures. It might actually be looked at in a negative way if you've become too individuated in these collective cultures. So. But I do think in this movie we do see especially Ulysses become his real self. He learns from his mistakes. He builds actual friendships instead of people he can just use. He comes to an understanding of how much his family needs him and why he wants that Although it could be argued at the end of this, like, maybe that was a mistake. But I'll leave that up to you. But, yeah, you definitely see a lot of individuation in oh, Brother, where I thought. All right, so we're going to take a quick break and then we'll bring Will back to talk about oh, Brother, Where Art Thou? All right. Well, we are back. We are back to talk. The Cohens. We are back to talk oh, Brother, Where Art Thou? Which is, of course, an adaptation of the Odyssey. Hello, sugar. How's my little girl? He ain't our daddy. I am the only daddy you got. I am the damn paterfamilias now. Mama's got a new boat. Vernon here's got a job. Vernon's got prospects. He's bonafide. What are you. You can't marry him.

Why can't?

I am and I will. This gentleman bothering you? Well, you can't marry my wife.

And stay out of the Woolsworth.

To get back to his wife and kids, Ulysses Everett McGill will do anything. Say any you boys Smitty.

But he's about to get off on the wrong track.

Who elected you leader of this, Alfia? Well, Pete, I figured it should be the one with the capacity for abstract thought. Boys, you just stick with me. We're in a tight spot. Believe me. If you got a plan and I can get my wife back and we can get out of here. Okay, I'm with you fellas. Ain't you going to introduce us, Pete? I seen him first. Pete. Them sirens loved him up and turned him into a horny toad. You two are just dumber than a bag of hammers. Allow me to introduce myself. Big Dan Tootcore. Hey, what line of work you in, George?

Come and get me. Cappy. Pop. Oh, George.

Not the livestock. Wait a minute. Since we've been following your lead, we got nothing but trouble. You have eluded me for the last time. I got the answer. I'm Bonafide. Maybe your friends think I'm just a stranger. My things you never see no more. There is one son. You're gonna go far. I'll need you. On, God, you ever been with a woman? I gotta get the family farm back before I can start thinking about that. So this is a movie I saw when it first came out, and I. Bastard. I liked it. I didn't love it And I'm not. And I couldn't tell you why, because every time I've rewatched it since which I think this is my fourth or Fifth watch now, I'm like, this is so good. And it, like, it's a movie that I forget how good it is until I watch it again. And then, like, as soon as I'm thrown into that world, I'm like, oh, man, the Cohen's really get it. And what they get more than anything is George Clooney is a buffoon.

Yeah.

And he's a perfect. And I do not say that in an insulting way. No, he is a perfect clown. Yes, he's a good looking man. He's always been the silver fox, but, like, sure out of sight. Great, all that stuff. This is really, to me, where he is best. Like, boys, we're in a tight spot. This is so. He kills. He absolutely kills in this movie. This. This might be my favorite Clooney performance maybe ever. Really, really good. So obviously this is a movie that has grown in my estimation. The Coen Brothers are interesting because they're so good at so many things when they're working together and that you sometimes are so good at drama that you forget how good they are at comedy. And of course, in all their movies, they kind of interlace the drama and the comedy. There's some moving, emotional stuff in here. But this is a comedy with a capital C. Like, this is absolutely a comedy first. But what about you? What's your history with oh, brother, where art thou? Whatever you're doing, I can't hear it. Oh, for the people listening at home. He held up his phone. Sue was playing music from the film.

I was playing a man of constant sorrow by the Soggy bottom voice.

That is.

But Zoom is like, hey, if you're not talking, it's background noise. And we filter it out.

That's right.

We're AI That Martin Scorsese is probably paying for. In any case. That was my cheeky way of saying how much I love this movie.

Yeah.

I did not see in the theater. I was two. But fair. I, you know, I got to it eventually and I absolutely just adore. I mean, we already talked about my connection to the Odyssey and immediately knowing that this is the Odyssey. Just in. The Coen Brothers, you know, Southern prisoner breakout, finding themselves on a long and twisted journey. I mean, it totally just scratched a part of. Scratched an itch in the part of my brain that, like, is inaccessible to most things. And I mean, Clooney is terrific. I mean, Turturro and Timbuk also right there with him. Yeah, phenomenal. I mean, yeah, this is. This is one of my favorite Coen Brothers movies. And that is a collection of many masterpieces. And I guess this is up there

with one of them.

Look, it's an incredible comedy. It is a phenomenal, just visualization of that buffoonery that you talked about that Clooney is perfected in this role in particular. I love the fact that he is given the opportunity to do this because it kind of takes away some of the mystique of. It does George Clooney being the smoldering guy who's always in a suit, who never looks anything but perfect. And of course, he is the most handsome man in this trio and is constantly, fittingly doing his hair with Dapper Dan hair products.

A Dapper Dan man.

But as a guy who really just is constantly in search of that perfect hair product that is yet to find it, I get it. I identify. So this movie speaks to me in more ways than one. But it's also just. It's just a incredible road movie. And what is the Odyssey if not a road story? Like, totally. It's just rocks. And. And the Cohens have made plenty of incredibly silly movies over the years, whether it's this or Burn After Reading or Hail Caesar. But you know, this is the one that I continue to come back to.

Or Fargo or. I mean, there's far.

I mean, they're all. It's all. The tone is always there, of course, but this one, I think rises above some of the others just in terms of quality and of storytelling. Like, I'd kill to read the script. Last year we talked about Monsoon Wedding. I'd killed to read that script. Like, there are movies that we have discussed on this podcast that I really would love to just sit down and rip through the script just to see where. Where what we obviously see in Final Product came from. And this is near the top of that list. Because when you're adapting something like the Odyssey, it is a well known story and the framework of it is common, but it is not necessarily the easiest thing to digest on first go. So to turn it into a truly original take, you know, is. Is a triumph that. That I will never stop loving. And I think that just from the first 25 minutes, they immediately get the sirens right.

But that. And that song, that song is so beautiful. Like, I've been. I've been listening to that soundtrack ever since watching this movie because, like. And I definitely did that the first time I saw this. Like, man, that music is so good. And every time I kind of forget just how great it is. And then I get like, re. Re. Stimulated about that. I'm like, where's my apple music? I got gotta listen to this again. And I've been listening and not only listening to it, but it's just been in my head, like kind of non stop sensing. And one of the things I love most about this movie is like, yes, it is a great adaptation of the Odyssey. I have half jokingly been telling people Christopher Nolan could never. Like, this is. This is phenomenal.

There's in a way, you're right.

Yeah. I mean, not like he could never make a movie as good as this, but he never make movie. He's just. He likes silly stuff, but he is not a silly guy as a director. Like, he just, at this point, even though he loves like Fast and the Furious and he's been, you know, he loves Ricky Bobby, like all that stuff, it's just, you know, it's just not in him. At least not yet. But this also works as not an adaptation. This works just as a movie. Like, you know, I was talking to my wife as we're watching it and she didn't realize that it was an Odyssey adaptation. And it's still a really enjoyable movie, even if you don't take that stuff into, into, into consideration. But once you do, and especially if you know the story very well, like you do and like I do, you're like, oh, there's this and this. Oh, the blind seer in the very beginning of the movie. And we have, I mean, obviously we have John Goodman's Cyclops character, which is maybe to me the best, like the best scene in the movie physically. Like, I just, every time I watch it, it is especially him manhandling Tim Blake Nelson. You could not find two men of more different sizes than John Goodman and Tim Blake Nelson. And it really works from a comedic aspect. And the thing I love about this movie is that, yes, it is a comedy and it is very funny, but it's also a movie about friendship and it's a movie about marriage. It's about all these things and it manages all this without hammering you over the head with it. It just, you know, as our character of Ulysses changes throughout, throughout the film and kind of figures out who he is and what it means to be honest and what it means to be an actual friend and not just someone using the people who are chained to you. It's like a friendship of convenience as opposed to an actual friendship. But as this builds, like, you actually see him change in really subtle ways as the movie moves forward. And strange to call a movie like this subtle with like, you know, These ridiculous fake beards and the dancing and the singing and everything. And, you know, John Goodman, this fake eye and the Ku Klux Klan and everything else that is going on in this movie. But it is actually a very subtle movie about relationships and it is really kind of emotionally affecting by the time you finish it. Even though I actually wanted to pick your brain about this because like the. So, you know, you have, you know, the storyline of the Odyssey. One of them is that his wife, as he's been gone for so long, has, you know, she's kind of like, okay, maybe I need to have another husband because I need someone to take care of me and all these damn kids that I got running around. And I love the bit at the end where all these kids are like tied together, just like he was tied to his friends at the beginning of the film. But, you know, he comes back and he's like, I, you know, he loves his wife and, you know, he goes and gets the ring or what he thinks is the ring. Is this a healthy marriage? By the end of the movie where she's like, no, I need you to go, like, go dredge up that river. Like, we kind of. It doesn't have an ending where you're like, oh, they're together and they should be together. So how do you feel about that relationship in particular? Because I think all the other relationships are really solid and good, but I'm not sure how I feel about that marriage by the end.

No, it's not, it's not healthy. It's terrible. But that it's, you know, this is a guy who went away to prison and is like, how dare you move on? What? You, you abandoned us and, and left me with all these kids and I'm supposed to just sit around waiting? It's like, right? I don't know. It's kind of an age old question in that way. I mean, you know, we see in, obviously we read it in the Odyssey, but we see in the trailer for Christopher Nolan's the Odyssey, like Anne Hathaway's Penelope continues, say Ithaca's king is coming back. There's faith in that because that is a powerful man who went on a courageous journey and is the embodiment of courage and bravery and stoicism and strength. So he's going to come back. What the Cohens do here with Everett is they make him into a bumbling fool who was imprisoned and is now tied to these two other bumbling fools and rightfully imprisoned.

Like, exactly.

Yeah, right. It's not like he was Falsely accused and thrown in jail and has been like, all he's wanted to do is write letters to his wife and get back. It's like, no, he kind of cares more about his hair product than he does his wife at certain points. So that, of course, it isn't a healthy marriage, but it's. It's. It's certainly a. A fascinating, I guess, examination of the lengths you will go to to win back the person who once had your heart and. And gave. Gave hers to. To you. And, you know, I mean, it's. There's nothing healthy about it because, of course, like, when he was imprisoned, Penny, played by Holly Hunter, we should say, you know, like, told. Told their kids.

Another great comedic performance, by the way. She's tremendous.

She's terrific. But it's like, yeah, he got. He got hit by a train and, you know, is. And then it's like, yeah, no, go direct. Go direct. Get that river, or go into the river and find the original ring. And he's kind of like, ah, fine. Okay. I guess, you know, it. It's a very, very funny relationship. I don't know if I even answered the question properly, but I. I get a kick out of it. Yeah. If it's not necessarily totally healthiest embodiment of you of a marital union.

Yeah. Not. Not so much. I also love that we. Yes, we talked about Clooney and how good he is. Obviously, Turturro is excellent here. His line reading of do not seek the treasure is embedded in my brain forever. But I also think, you know, this. Again, much like the Clooney is a buffoon. I do not mean this as an insult, Tim. Blake Nelson may be our greatest idiot performer. Like, I just. I love him so much in this movie. Like, he's dumb as dirt, and yet you're like. Like, rooting for him. Like the. Like, I love that this movie, like, it takes the kind of magic of the Odyssey and turns it on its head. Right. We have the. You know, the. The river, everything being drained, and there's, like, a scientific reasoning behind this. And the whole toad thing. You just, like, finds the toad where the clothes is, and then it immediately is like, that's him. They turned you into a toad. I believe it without any thought in my head moving forward. And I love that Clooney's character is kind of like, I don't. I don't think that is what's happening. But he never. He never really mocks him for it. He's just like, all right, well, we got to get back on the road. So we're just gonna. You can carry the. Carry the stupid toad if you want. Just keep the box closed. We're not taking this out in the restaurant. Just relax. And I love that the movie is just constantly just like. Like, just go with it. We're just gonna go with it. We're just gonna have a good time. Because you're right, it is. It's a. It's a buddy movie. It's a road movie. It's literally just like, okay. And the next thing they encounter is this. And this is how these idiots bumble their way through it. Like, and I love that we have this, you know, Robert Johnson corollary. Like, the man who, you know, sold his soul to the devil at the crossroads to be able to play the guitar. And then we bring in the kkk, the secret society. And obviously the cyclops is a part of that. The ultimate symbol of monstrous, the kkk. And I just absolutely love that. And they also turn it, pseudo, into a musical number like the KKK organ. It's like a marching band. Like, it just is such a smart movie and always so entertaining. It never takes itself too seriously, but it also never jokes too much. There is a very thin line that it is walking, and it really never falters. Like, I'm kind of. This movie is kind of a miracle. Like, I'm kind of amazed by it. Like, this is a movie. Like, on paper, if you tried to pitch this to me, I'd be like. Like, that sounds terrible. That, no, there's no way this could ever work. And it really, really does work. And also, like, I mean, we kind of mention it, but the music in this movie works, like, crazy. Like that. Soggy Bottom Boys, like, Man of Constant Sorrow. That is a hit. Like, that is, like, every time I listen to it, like, even separate from the movie, I'm like, this is a hit. Like, this is a great, great song. And I love that they made no effort to cast someone who looks like they could sing that song. That definitely, at no point looks like it comes out of Clooney. But as my wife mentioned, who is a singer, he does a really good job at acting like he's singing. What he's doing in those. In those performance sequences cannot be undersold. Like, he's really good there. Like, he really, really sells it and it really works. Like. And I love that we have, you know, Turturro, Dimly Nelson in the background dancing in a circle. Like, just. It looks like everyone is having a good time in this movie. And I don't know how you can watch this movie and not smile. Like, it just like kind of sweeps you up with it. You're like, okay, Rock Candy Mountain, let's go. I'm. And that's like the very first song. It is a goofy, ridiculous song and it really sets. Sets the tone and tells you, like, you can't take this stuff too seriously, man. Just come with us on this journey. Come with us on this odyssey and you're gonna have a good time. And you know what? Every time I do.

Every time. Yeah, there's. There is just such beauty to that, isn't there? But what I think. I think what's interesting is like, I always hope, or at least wonder if the actors who are being dubbed over when they're singing, I'd like to think they're actually singing and then it's just dubbed over in post because, oh, maybe to act like you are singing and exerting yourself in the way that you need to. To sing is very difficult. Like, if you're lip syncing, you can't do. Doesn't look real. So I have to wonder about that. But that's kind of neither here nor there. The technicality of that is up to Joel and Ethan Cohen. But you're absolutely right. Like, they don't bother. It kind of goes with the. The mystique of it all and the, the. The fantasy of it all. It's like, who gives a if this. If Clooney is actually singing this? It's. These guys are. All three of them are bumbling buffoons. One's named Pete Hogwallop and the other's named Delmar. Like, are we kidding? Yeah. Also Tim Blake Nelson, the most Del Mar looking actor. Yes, we have. Ever so true. But like, these guys aren't the. The whole fantasy of the story is the fact that these three fools are like, we need $10 or any money at all.

Right?

So let's go record. Let's go say we are a singing trio. And then they just. Just randomly bang out this massive hit. And it's like, whoa, these guys can sing. These guys are absolute stars. And the song becomes a hit on the radio and it's like, well, yeah, the. I mean, they don't even know about it because they're idiots and they're running from the law and they're just trying to, you know, cheat, lie, and steal their way to freedom, which is a backwards route to freedom that is ultimately going to probably land you back in the opposite scenario. But again, the. You mentioned earlier that like the. The friendship between the three. It is funny how early on, the tone is set for there to be something of a rivalry. But also, none of them are ever actually smart enough to make it a rivalry because they. So true on each other. Like, quickly Everett, George Clooney character is like, all right, we're gonna go this way, and we're gonna do this. And then, Pete, John Turturro is like, who made you the leader of this troop?

And the slowness of his speech in this movie is so good.

But what I love even more is right after that, like, they both vote for themselves. And then they ask,

I agree.

I agree with both of you. I think I stand with both of you. And it's like, what? So they just kind of throw.

They both said, I vote for me. And he said, yeah. He said, yeah, that's a good idea.

That's a great idea. Let's do that. Anybody else? And then they don't need it because they end up being very lucky. And they. That is kind of the. The inverse of the Courage of the Odyssey is like, he continues to find ways to escape these scenarios because he never stops looking and he never stops trying to find his way back home, no matter how long the odds are. What's great about this and why it works as a adaptation of the Odyssey, but also as just a silly road movie. I mean, the tagline for this movie is, they have a plan, but not a clue. Blue. Their plan is just keep moving, get away, get away, get away, get away, get away, get away. Get some money along the way. But what. What continues to happen is they continue to stumble into these favorable scenarios. Like, I mean, you said it earlier, but every single time George Clooney says, man, we're in a tight spot, it gets funnier.

It should not work. It's.

Can't even hear it. By the sixth time he's saying it, like. Like gunshots are going off in the background of the plea. We got you surrounded, man. We're in a tight spot. It's like, no, find your way out. And they don't even need to, because it ends up working out like the. John Turturro's nephew ends up rolling up with a car, and I'm gonna R R U N O F F T so good. It's so good. Can't spell or read, but he figures out what his dad's saying when he's spelling out what his mom did. Like, it's. It's just. It's hilarious. And it's. It's it's exhilarating at times. Like, I remember the first time, first time I saw it, I was, like, fearful of what was going to happen when they went into the water with the sirens, because famously, the sirens are supposed to lull you in and imprison you and. And endanger you. What they do here, though, is they. They just baptize these guys. Like, we found religion. We're saved. All of our sins are gone. We can't.

We're good men now. And the, like, ultimate stupidity of, like, well, that means I'm. I. They don't. They're not gonna arrest me, right?

They're not gonna arrest me anymore because I've been washed away from sin by these singing Christians in the river.

It's incredible. But you know what we haven't talked about, Will? We have not talked about the single funniest performance in this movie, and that is Stephen Root.

Yeah, naturally.

Holy God. Like, like, you want to talk about, like, a really extreme, jokey, Southern performance? This is among the best. It is so, like, I almost wanted them to stay there longer because I wanted to see if he could keep this up because it is. It is crazy to watch, like, Stephen Root, one of the most known and yet undersung actors that we. He's. You know, he's like. We've. We've talked about before. He's like Bill Camp in that way where it's like, he really is. He shows up and you just know you're in good hands no matter what. He's also very good in Widow's Bay that is out right now. It just a tremendous, especially comedic character actor. Most people, I guess, probably know him. What, from Barry? That was like, kind of maybe the most known.

But I would argue, like, at this point, I mean, he's been in so many of the Cohen's movies.

Yeah.

But also I would argue at this point, like, he's probably best known for either dodgeball or get out.

Yeah, yeah.

It's a good call in the most popular sense. But, like, yeah, Barry, he can do

it all, like, again.

I mean, he's been in a hundred on letterboxd, which obviously includes things that have yet to be made and are shorts and nobody ever actually saw these things. And Sometimes it's a YouTube commercial and you don't even realize it. But, like, he's been in 128 movies. Movies. And I'm just looking at, like, the first few scrolls and I've scrolled for, like, at least. Yeah, I just scrolled to the bottom and like, the fourth row from the bottom. I see a movie that he's been in that I've seen, and that doesn't always happen with guys like this, but he is truly like a. A foundational presence in silly movies.

God, even just what he's doing with his eyes in this movie, like, I feel like I'd watch for like an hour in the.

I mean, it's the most satirical portrayal of a blind man you've ever seen.

Like, he's blind racist.

Like, it's blind racist. You know, I don't record any of those songs. It's like. It is. No, we don't. We don't. No, we don't sing them. It's. He's just our companyist.

But you said that word better than any of them. Could they accompany us? They just could not get out. Like, it's this movie just. It masters this ability to show idiocy, but just enough like it. The jokes never overstay their welcome in this. Like, the man, we're in a tight spot that should have overstayed its welcome because it's repeated. But it's funny every single time. And I, as you mentioned, I do like this idea that they become, you know, in this old world, this number one hit. Their names are in the paper and they have no idea. And it ends up turning the tide of a major election because they show up and again, like you said, they just stumble into this situation. They put on their fake beards and they go sing this song. And it completely overrules anything else that's going on. Like, they destroy. In this town. They destroy the KKK and someone who is running for office through the singing of one song. Like, it's incredible.

The.

It's so good.

And I think I could get. I think I could get into my grandfather's truck down in Tennessee and play this song. And he would ask me, where did this come from?

Guaranteed read. Yeah.

Because it's that good.

It really, really is. It really works. And, you know, I. I love that It. You know, of course it has. It has its messages as far as race in this movie, but again, there's a sledgehammer here. It's still just. It's a good time at the movies. Like, this is. This movie is like. It's like a party. Like, it's like everything. Like, there's. It never. Even in moments where they're in danger, it does. It never takes it seriously. There's never a moment where I think one of them is going to get shot. Like, it just feels like, oh, yeah, this is a movie where it's like, it's all going to work out in the end. I don't know exactly how, but we're going to get there and we're going to have a really good time getting there. It's like a. I mean, the. You know, you can compare it to any amount of road movies, road movies, or buddy movies like planes, trains, and automobiles. Like, there's going to be moments that are powerful and dramatic, but most of it is going to be a really good time. And by the end, we're all going to figure it out together. And this is a movie that really figures it out. And I, you know, in watching this and thinking about the Cohen's, like, is it their best musical movie? Maybe not. You know, we got our Oscar Isaac movie in there. Is it their most well known comedy? No the Big Lebowski exists, but I think it might be their best comedy, like out and out comedy, because Fargo is really funny. But it is. It's a. It's a dramedy. You know, it's about a murder. Whereas this is. There's no dramedy about it. Like, this is absolutely a comedy. And every scene, its goal is to make you laugh. Like, even the moments about friendship that are powerful, you're still meant to be laughing and joking along with them on the road. And there's never a moment where you. Where it gets weighed down by the race of it all, by the friendship, by the marriage. It is all you can just. This is a movie that if you have your brain turned on, there's a lot there. But if you have your brain turned on, you're still gonna have a really good time. And those movies are rare. Like, this is. This movie is a rarity in a lot of ways. Like, it again, it is a movie that on paper is kind of ridiculous. And you're like, I don't. I don't know. Like, if you told someone, okay, so it's a version of the. Of the Odyssey, but it's like country fried and there's no, like, real magic or gods to speak of. And also John Goodman plays the Cyclops. Like, would I be interested in watching that movie? Sure. Would I be afraid that it would be an absolute disaster also? Yes. Like, I just, you know, never feels that way. It just. And it. You could tell that the Cohen's, as usual, are in complete control of this movie and of the tone. It feels like you could tell this is exactly the movie that they wanted to make. This is why I wish they would come back together and work together again because, like, together, they are an absolute force in every style of filmmaking. Like, this is a beautiful film to look at. It's a funny film to watch. The music all works. This is a movie that, like, from opening credits to closing, I'm just, like, so locked in and enjoying myself all the way through. And that, as we've mentioned in previous episodes, we are avid movie watchers, so it's very easy for us to kind of get lost in minutia and, like, tracking what's going on. I don't feel like that in this movie. I just feel like I'm having a good time.

I'm with you. And I mean, we. Not only are they obviously in control of their craft and as they tend to be, and I really miss when they were working together. I mean, what was the last film they did together? Ballad of Buster Scruggs.

It might be like, that's.

That's a shame. But I. I hope they can reunite because I'm really sick of Ethan's soul adventures. And Joel, I'm curious about this. This Jack of Spades situation going on, but we'll see. But I mean, we also haven't mentioned the fact that Roger Deakins shot this movie.

God, no wonder. It looks incredible.

Like, it looks amazing. It looks. Again, if you had told me that, I think it's funny because you said,

I mean, just the baptism scene alone, like, one of the most beautiful things I've ever seen. Well, I mean, Allison Krauss and Emmylou Harris singing. I mean, that. That certainly helps, but wow.

There's also, like, the fact that, like, my. My letterboxd backdrop, I set it to the shot of them singing in the other room, but you looking through the glass and we see the reflection of Stephen Root and his bug eyes, like, like, you know, incredible. It's a hilarious shot, but it's also just beautifully composed, as is much of this movie. And if you had told me that you were getting a country fried adaptation of the Odyssey where John Goodman plays the cyclops and Roger Deakins shot, I would have been like, I'm there.

Yeah, fair.

And there's no way it can be bad. And frankly, if you'd taken away the Roger Deakins of it all, I probably still would have been like, there. There's no way it could be bad, because I just think it's.

Well, there's some ways.

Well, there are certainly some ways, like, you could make it get deeply racist or. Or deranged or whatever it is. And thankfully, this movie is kind of neither of those things. Maybe it's a little deranged, but in a beautiful way.

But in the right way.

Really, really enjoy. And I mean these guys have made plenty of deranged movies over the years and you could, you could call any of them deranged. And they're all done in a, a very, in a way that very few filmmakers could ever do. I mean, if you think about it.

Absolutely.

You said it off the top. Christopher Nolan could not make oh Brother, Where Are they?

No, I don't want him to.

I don't want him to. And I wouldn't want the Cohen's to make the Odyssey. Like swords and sandals, Trojan Horse, all that. I don't want that. Yeah, because if you're going to make a true blue adaptation of the Odyssey, I think that's what it should be. But if you are making something that is inspired and adapted from the Odyssey and is not the Odyssey on film, this is as close to perfect as you could ever get. You said it again off the top and in your letterbox review. It is the best Odyssey by far. And there's a fantastic collection of films on the Criterion Channel right now that I believe Sean Fennesee co programmed that is just called Odysseys and Darjeeling Limited is one of them.

Sure.

And I mean it's just a great group of films that are in the vein of the Odyssey or adapted from it. And this being in that collection, I mean it would be incomplete without it. This is a phenomenal work of humor and art and friendship and you know, Road Journey. Like it has every single element you could put in the fact, like you said it, they sway a political election. Like this movie is so silly, but incredibly, incredibly so. And I, I just, it's going to be something that I probably continue to re watch. Yeah. Potentially on a annual or biannual basis. Like this is the second time in a matter of six months that I've watched this movie and not once during this most recent watch. Was I like, okay, I've, I've already. I saw it very recently. I can turn it off. No, I was locked in from the jump.

Totally. I mean, that's how I know this movie is great. And I can always tell a movie is great when we talk about it because by the end of the episode I was like, I should watch that again. Even though I watched it like two days ago. I'm like, you know what? I kind of want to watch that again. That was really fun. Like, it's just, it's, it's a blast.

And real quick, I often will attribute something to Roger Ebert before the episode is over. And he couldn't have been more wrong about this one. He gave it two and a half out of four stars, said he left the movie uncertain and unsatisfied. And to that I just say, raj, look, nobody's perfect.

You know, Nobody's perfect.

And I hope that there is a massive physical media library up in heaven where you could throw this back on and realize how wrong you were, give it another shot.

And one thing I will say about Ebert is that he is one of the few critics who will go back or would go back and be like, you know what? I was wrong about that one. I was totally misread it. And that is the thing, as you know, if you are a film critic, you have to have immediate reactions. And sometimes that's to the detriment of. Of your viewing of the movie. Like, you just. You gotta.

Terrible.

You know, like, there are movies that, like, the more you sit with them, the better they get. You mentioned Spielberg earlier, and I think Disclosure Day is going to be one of those movies that has been very divisive. And I think, yes, we are going to look back on that and it's going to seem very silly.

So, yeah, I, Well, I mentioned last week and I'll mention again now that we're wrapping up, like, I have essay ideas in my head, and one of them is just like, can we get back to the days where people, like, liked movies?

Yeah, yeah, it's. There is a certain amount of, like, I have to have a take and it has to be. It has to bait people into being mad at me, and it's just like, over yourself. You know, when I see things like, you know, this is a terrible movie or Spielberg has lost it, or blah, blah, blah, and it's just like, okay, I. I now know that you are a silly person. That is not to be taken. Because you can dislike the movie. You can not even. You can engage with it in a way that's like, that didn't work for you. You totally. Fine. But to say that from the craft of filmmaking, he's lost it. You. You need to try again. That's insane. So, yeah, try, try again. All right, so Will next week.

Yes.

A movie that, of course, premiered at a bunch of festivals, Motor City comes out. This is right.

I didn't even know what we were doing.

Yes. This is starring Alan Richson and it's a revenge movie and it is mostly sans dialogue. So we are going to take a look at another action revenge movie that has very little dialogue in Blue Ruin. So that is next week. So until then, will. Where can they find you online?

You could find me at by Will Bearnart on Twitter and Will Bearna on Letterbox. People watching a bunch writing a bunch of places like In Session. Of course, the show can be found everywhere at Pop Case Study. And Dave, where can they find you and what have you been working on?

Yeah, you can find me at Darn that Dave. Everywhere. On Twitter, on letterboxd, on Instagram, wherever you want to contact me, I am there. Just like Pop Case Study is, you know, working mostly on editing and a little bit of writing here and there. I am, you know, probably recovering from Tribeca, the world's most tepid film festival festival possible. But there will be lots of stuff to read, do not worry. So please follow me at Darnthat Dave, you can find all of my work there or just look at In Session because everything that is published there, it's also kind of my work because I'm editing absolutely everything that comes through there. So make sure to check that out. So until next time, we will be here diagnosing your favorites and judging you for what you watch. The place where I was born and Brave the place where he was born

and brave

four horses.